dead finally

A general 'catch-all' discussion area shared by members and non-members alike.

Moderator: Staff

Atomic
Opulent
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:21 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Atomic » Mon May 02, 2011 9:58 pm

ent wrote:Also, men get arrested. Dogs get put down.
I'll happily agree with your point about acceptable risk to the guys that went in but I can't agree with you on that last point. Yes he was an utter bastard and he ordered unquestionably horrific acts of terrorism but he was still a human being and if at all possible he should have been brought to face justice.

From what I've read from the bbc website it appears that the SEALs cornered bin laden in a room and ordered him to surrender, he refused so they shot him in the head. To me that amounts to an execution. I assume that Osama was armed at this point, but that detail has not come out (at least from what I've seen), but if correct I suppose that would be a mitigating circumstance for the SEALs simply slotting him rather than trying some form of capture.

Shaddowmaster
Prolific
Posts: 4369
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Stockholm
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Shaddowmaster » Tue May 03, 2011 10:37 am

what I wonder is that if they finally popped him, why would they dump his body in the ocean the next day rather than letting images leak all over the world to verify his death rather than let rumors of conspiracy fly freely?

dox
Prolific
Posts: 18731
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:20 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by dox » Tue May 03, 2011 10:47 am

Regardless of the technical details I agree with Atomic; yes he was a human, "putting him down" seems more in tune with the "hee haw" American caricature, the dancing in the streets practically indiscernible from the horrible scenes of foreigners celebrating American casualties. Uncouth. I'm also disappointed to see the term 'justice' being thrown around so much, if you think popping some replaceable guy in his dirty bedroom is 'justice' and cause for celebration I daresay we have very little in common -- if some of the three thousand lost innocent lives could speak I think they'd agree: we have lost so, so much and the chants of "USA!" ring with a sad irony as everything from civil rights through to completely changed lifestyles and increased terror alerts replace the drunken revelry with a sober reminder that al Qaeda is still in business and the 9/11 victims are still dead. Is killing Osama justice served for all that? I don't think so. So how's about putting away the party hats and figuring out how to fix this mess.

ent
Prolific
Posts: 4136
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by ent » Tue May 03, 2011 12:50 pm

Shaddowmaster wrote:what I wonder is that if they finally popped him, why would they dump his body in the ocean the next day rather than letting images leak all over the world to verify his death rather than let rumors of conspiracy fly freely?
They wanted to be "respectful" instead of deal with the shitstorm of people complaining about how they're handling his body. Also, I doubt appeasing conspiracy theorists is high on their agenda. It's not like they'd be happy with pictures of his body or *any* proof they could provide, for that matter.

Another thing, it's highly doubtful any country would want that body buried on their soil. Boom, instant martyr shrine.
dox wrote:Regardless of the technical details I agree with Atomic; yes he was a human, "putting him down" seems more in tune with the "hee haw" American caricature, the dancing in the streets practically indiscernible from the horrible scenes of foreigners celebrating American casualties. Uncouth. I'm also disappointed to see the term 'justice' being thrown around so much, if you think popping some replaceable guy in his dirty bedroom is 'justice' and cause for celebration I daresay we have very little in common -- if some of the three thousand lost innocent lives could speak I think they'd agree: we have lost so, so much and the chants of "USA!" ring with a sad irony as everything from civil rights through to completely changed lifestyles and increased terror alerts replace the drunken revelry with a sober reminder that al Qaeda is still in business and the 9/11 victims are still dead. Is killing Osama justice served for all that? I don't think so. So how's about putting away the party hats and figuring out how to fix this mess.
For me at least, it's not a celebratory "Hooray!"

It's more of national pride, a "Fuck yeah, we got him" feeling. The wars in the Middle East aren't at all a satisfying response to 9/11 because most people recognize the disconnect between everything that we've done over there and the events of 9/11. Getting bin Laden is the justice everyone wanted after 9/11, and I think it's a release of long awaited desire to have that justice. We would have reacted the same way if we had captured him. We're celebrating the fact that we got him, not that someone died.

Killing him isn't a grand victory on the war on terror and most people know that. The celebration is simply accomplishing a long sought after goal.

Smithy
Prolific
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:33 pm
Location: New Mexico
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Smithy » Tue May 03, 2011 3:10 pm

WEll, The people out partying and all that crap dont represent the entire nation. Just like the wackos in the middle east burning USA flags dont represent the entire religion of islams and etc.. Its just what the news outlets put on air ways because the "normal" people are un interesting.

As an American i proudly say America Fuck yeah!! not to praise the death of a man. But to praise the accomplishments and hard work that our men and women in service to our country have done.. They have proved that no mater what you do, or where you hide we will find you and bring "justice". Yeah i would have like to seen him captured alive but do you think he was just going to put his weapon down with out a fight? And what if we did capture him What then? a Trial? what if there was not enough evidence to convict him and we had to let him go? so much speculation as this can unfold so many ways imho this has done little to "end the war on terror" some one else is going to step up and take his place. we can only hope that who ever that may be is not as charismatic and inspiring leader to al queada as osama was.
Image

ent
Prolific
Posts: 4136
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by ent » Tue May 03, 2011 4:35 pm

Image

NoOutsTwice
Fecund
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Las Vegas NV

Re: dead finally

Post by NoOutsTwice » Tue May 03, 2011 6:32 pm

@Atomic and Dox:

Are the two of you seriously advocating a trial for Bin Laden in the American legal system? The same system that brought us the wonderful OJ Simpson trial? F that!!

In the wake of 9-11 Pres. Bush declared this guy public enemy #1 - wanted dead or alive. I didn't hear a lot of disagreement from either end of the political spectrum at that pronouncement. The last time we suffered an attack of this magnitude we nuked Japan for god sake. Did you really think we didn't mean what we said?

F that guy and F his retarded take on religion too. When these intolerant idiots are ready to leave the middle ages, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, I'll be waving the stars and stripes along with my countrymen.
win with honor

ent
Prolific
Posts: 4136
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by ent » Tue May 03, 2011 7:23 pm

Hope these posts aren't unwelcome, bringing some humor to an otherwise pretty serious / morbid thread :)

Image

Crystal
Prolific
Posts: 1997
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:55 pm
Location: Southampton, UK
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Crystal » Tue May 03, 2011 7:41 pm

I quite like this one.

Image

ent
Prolific
Posts: 4136
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by ent » Tue May 03, 2011 8:19 pm

Crystal, what level of evidence would be acceptable to convince you that it wasn't a conspiracy?

skullhead
Prolific
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: chicago

Re: dead finally

Post by skullhead » Tue May 03, 2011 9:38 pm

Osama just registered to vote in Chicago, he must be dead.

Atomic
Opulent
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:21 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Atomic » Wed May 04, 2011 12:31 am

It appears that Bin Laden was unarmed when shot according to the latest reports i've seen on the bbc website (the source for that was from the white house). This is looking more & more like a straight-up assassination...

skullhead
Prolific
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: chicago

Re: dead finally

Post by skullhead » Wed May 04, 2011 1:00 am


Havoc
Prolific
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 5:18 pm
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Havoc » Wed May 04, 2011 1:13 am

If it were me I would have shot the bastard also armed or unarmed. If he was unarmed then I would have beat his ass for a while then shot him.
Image

Crystal
Prolific
Posts: 1997
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:55 pm
Location: Southampton, UK
Contact:

Re: dead finally

Post by Crystal » Wed May 04, 2011 1:17 am

ent wrote:Crystal, what level of evidence would be acceptable to convince you that it wasn't a conspiracy?
Dunno, maybe:

A picture that isn't photoshopped? If I can see pictures of Saddam's hanging, I can see pictures of the 'worlds most wanted' man with a bullet in his head.

Post Reply