Sanctiotions to protect the world, right...

Philosophy and Politics, from Aristotle to Trudeau, discussions that cover the gamut from civilizations, societies, how they're run and why we're here.

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dox
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Post by dox » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:13 pm

zappa wrote:
dox wrote:..but some wars you just can't win by definition; e.g.: 'war on terror' - the most you can hope for is to dismantle visible infrastructure since the very definition of a terrorist includes the use of civilian/non-combatant disguises. Therefore if you want to attain total victory by violence you would have to wipe out all civilians and non-combatants which easily slips in to the definition of genocide. All it takes is a dictionary and you can see why 'war on terror' = 'genocide'; zappa mentions 'The death cult we face today' but I think it's obvious that both sides in the engagement are blatant purveyors of said 'death cult' and therefore there is no face, just two sides of a death cult coin.
Dox, are you including the West as purveyors of a death cult?
If by "the West" you mean America, then yes, but of course I'm using a term you're employing without knowing your exact definition of it. If you disagree perhaps you could start by defining "death cult" so we have some common terminology upon which to debate.

zappa
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Post by zappa » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:57 pm

dox wrote:
zappa wrote:
dox wrote:..but some wars you just can't win by definition; e.g.: 'war on terror' - the most you can hope for is to dismantle visible infrastructure since the very definition of a terrorist includes the use of civilian/non-combatant disguises. Therefore if you want to attain total victory by violence you would have to wipe out all civilians and non-combatants which easily slips in to the definition of genocide. All it takes is a dictionary and you can see why 'war on terror' = 'genocide'; zappa mentions 'The death cult we face today' but I think it's obvious that both sides in the engagement are blatant purveyors of said 'death cult' and therefore there is no face, just two sides of a death cult coin.
Dox, are you including the West as purveyors of a death cult?
If by "the West" you mean America, then yes, but of course I'm using a term you're employing without knowing your exact definition of it. If you disagree perhaps you could start by defining "death cult" so we have some common terminology upon which to debate.
It includes all of the western countries, not just the USA. That means yours too, dox. Death cult is a fervent commitment by someone to convert a person to their way of thinking. If this cant be done, they will be killed.

redfireant3
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Post by redfireant3 » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:18 am

i think it is the leaders that conveys that way of thinking. after all how popular would they be if they did represent the adverage working man?

RingoCalamity
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Post by RingoCalamity » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:22 am

That's the kind of generic definition that could as easily be applied to the US as to Al Quaeda or Iran.

Don't want to stop pursuing uranium enrichment? Won't allow UN inspectors? Won't produce chemical and biological weapons that you don't even have?

We'll smoke 'em out, bring 'em on. Dead or alive.

It's a two way street.

By the way, have you seen The Cult of the Suicide Bomber? I think you may have because of your own use of the 'cult' term, although more loosely applied, but I have to recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it. It's a good balanced look at the history of the modern phenomenon of suicide bombing in the middle east, starting with the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980's. It's hosted by Robert Baer, who's the former CIA officer that George Clooney's character in Syriana is based on.

There are some notable omissions - for instance, the film never touches on the Kamikazes of World War 2. There might be a reason for that - according to the recently released Kamikaze Diaries (which I haven't read myself yet) a lot of these guys were strongly coerced into taking their Kamikaze assignments, showing that they may not have been so willing after all - and certainly not as eager as the extremist bombers of today.

And as for the whole, "tomorrow may be too late thing"...That doesn't play after Iraq. The US can't say to us, "Trust us" anymore, not when it means starting a war.

dox
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Post by dox » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:54 am

zappa wrote:
dox wrote:
zappa wrote:Dox, are you including the West as purveyors of a death cult?
If by "the West" you mean America, then yes, but of course I'm using a term you're employing without knowing your exact definition of it. If you disagree perhaps you could start by defining "death cult" so we have some common terminology upon which to debate.
It includes all of the western countries, not just the USA. That means yours too, dox. Death cult is a fervent commitment by someone to convert a person to their way of thinking. If this cant be done, they will be killed.
Brilliant! Zappa got me hook, line and ALMOST sinker :) Probably the best troll I've seen on our forums in a year if not longer!!

zappa
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Post by zappa » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:11 pm

RingoCalamity wrote:That's the kind of generic definition that could as easily be applied to the US as to Al Quaeda or Iran.

Don't want to stop pursuing uranium enrichment? Won't allow UN inspectors? Won't produce chemical and biological weapons that you don't even have?

We'll smoke 'em out, bring 'em on. Dead or alive.

It's a two way street.

By the way, have you seen The Cult of the Suicide Bomber? I think you may have because of your own use of the 'cult' term, although more loosely applied, but I have to recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it. It's a good balanced look at the history of the modern phenomenon of suicide bombing in the middle east, starting with the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980's. It's hosted by Robert Baer, who's the former CIA officer that George Clooney's character in Syriana is based on.

There are some notable omissions - for instance, the film never touches on the Kamikazes of World War 2. There might be a reason for that - according to the recently released Kamikaze Diaries (which I haven't read myself yet) a lot of these guys were strongly coerced into taking their Kamikaze assignments, showing that they may not have been so willing after all - and certainly not as eager as the extremist bombers of today.

And as for the whole, "tomorrow may be too late thing"...That doesn't play after Iraq. The US can't say to us, "Trust us" anymore, not when it means starting a war.
The correct term is" homicide bomber" because other people die too, which is a homicide. Nuclear weapons in the hands of Iran, a country that is willing to sacrifice half of its population for the obliteration of Israel? You don't need Iraq for that one. The USA does't need your countries permission for its policies as well as the permission of the turd world countries.

zappa
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Post by zappa » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:37 pm

dox wrote:
zappa wrote:
dox wrote: If by "the West" you mean America, then yes, but of course I'm using a term you're employing without knowing your exact definition of it. If you disagree perhaps you could start by defining "death cult" so we have some common terminology upon which to debate.
It includes all of the western countries, not just the USA. That means yours too, dox. Death cult is a fervent commitment by someone to convert a person to their way of thinking. If this cant be done, they will be killed.
Brilliant! Zappa got me hook, line and ALMOST sinker :) Probably the best troll I've seen on our forums in a year if not longer!!
I'm hiding under the bridge waiting for snotlings.

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Post by skullhead » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:46 pm

What morally justifies a war is its motive.


skullhead 2006 a.d.

Evil Ed
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Post by Evil Ed » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:03 am

So it all goes down to war. Interesting...


Well! Bring your own bombs!
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