NK nuke test

Philosophy and Politics, from Aristotle to Trudeau, discussions that cover the gamut from civilizations, societies, how they're run and why we're here.

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Evil Ed
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Post by Evil Ed » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:54 pm

PhoeniX wrote:
Atlas wrote:World War I
World War II
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf (kinda, more like play in the sand)
Gulf II (Yeah, this time we brought big brother)
This doesn't make sense to me.. What's your point in mentioning all wars the U.S. has fought in over the last 100 years? How can you compare these wars?

All these are under the title: Peacekeeping.

A wise Quekees once told me, "Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity."
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A.Mo.K
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Post by A.Mo.K » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:54 pm

PhoeniX wrote:
Atlas wrote:World War I
World War II
Korea
Vietnam
Gulf (kinda, more like play in the sand)
Gulf II (Yeah, this time we brought big brother)
This doesn't make sense to me.. What's your point in mentioning all wars the U.S. has fought in over the last 100 years? How can you compare these wars?
i m not completely sure but...
WWs were all over the world,
Korea, Vietnam were asian, gulf I + II middle east?
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"Sir, yes, sir! I'm BORN to do a hell of a lot, sir!" - Phoenix, May, 2nd 2007

billflu
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Post by billflu » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:56 pm

Yeah, I think Atlas needs to explain his logic.

PhoeniX
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Post by PhoeniX » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:02 pm

Evil Ed wrote:All these are under the title: Peacekeeping.
That is bullshit.

World War I was peacekeeping? No.
World War II was peacekeeping? No.
Korea was peacekeeping? No, they kicked the North Koreans back to where they belonged (sort of).
Vietnam was peacekeeping? No, they didn't want to keep peace -- they wanted to keep capitalism in South Vietnam (sort of).
Gulf War I was peacekeeping? No, they kicked the Iraqis out of Quwait.
Gulf War II... Maybe the US explanation was peace keeping (indirectly), but to me that wasn't peacekeeping either.

Sorry, but that didn't make sense to me Ed.

Evil Ed
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Post by Evil Ed » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Then i'll make myself clear. It was Peacekeeping according to the Americans.


This is the cover for the Movie Full Metal Jacket. The helmet of a warrior with the taunt "Born to Kill", some 7.6mm ammunition on the backside of it and a peace mark.
That's what i meant. And that movie is about the Vietnam war.

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A.Mo.K
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Post by A.Mo.K » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:12 pm

I think thats not what he meant! he meant they just were under the title "peacekeepin" that doesnt mean the war was it! theres no way a war can make peace! think of it, has a war ever changed a country in a positive way? no, a war just can destroy, not do anything good!
= u got him wrong :P
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PhoeniX
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Post by PhoeniX » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:16 pm

(Yeah right, like QueKees has founded that phrase.. :lol:)
Evil Ed wrote:It was Peacekeeping according to the Americans.
Oh really?

'The Americans' ever said World War I and II were peacekeeping missions?

RingoCalamity
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Post by RingoCalamity » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:16 pm

It's worth noting that America was dragged kicking and screaming into both world wars, so "blaming" them for either is...well, wrong.

Korea and Vietnam were cold war conflicts, to fight the spread of communism. Right or wrong? We all made it through the cold war in one piece, so I'm not going to judge.

The US mission in Korea today could be called peacekeeping I guess. America's there to keep up the terms of the armistice, and who knows what would have happened by now if America had gone home when the shooting stopped.

Gulf War I was actually a war of liberation (as much as that term's been misused and abused lately).

Gulf War II...I don't want to get into this one.

For what it's worth though, I think the only real legitimate peacekeeping happens with a blue helmet on, but knowing people's opinion's of the UN right now, I expect a lot of people will disagree with that.

PhoeniX
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Post by PhoeniX » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:33 pm

RingoCalamity wrote:It's worth noting that America was dragged kicking and screaming into both world wars, so "blaming" them for either is...well, wrong.

Korea and Vietnam were cold war conflicts, to fight the spread of communism. Right or wrong? We all made it through the cold war in one piece, so I'm not going to judge.

The US mission in Korea today could be called peacekeeping I guess. America's there to keep up the terms of the armistice, and who knows what would have happened by now if America had gone home when the shooting stopped.

Gulf War I was actually a war of liberation (as much as that term's been misused and abused lately).

Gulf War II...I don't want to get into this one.

For what it's worth though, I think the only real legitimate peacekeeping happens with a blue helmet on, but knowing people's opinion's of the UN right now, I expect a lot of people will disagree with that.
^^^^ Exactly.

One thing though, the U.S. intervention in Korea in 1951 wasn't exactly a peaceKEEPING mission -- North Korea already invaded South Korea, the U.S. forces (along with a wide coalition of U.N. troops) were there to kick the communist forces back to where they belonged (and farther). Until the Chinese jumped in and pushed the U.N. coalition back to where it all started. So that wasn't really peace keeping either.

Atlas
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Post by Atlas » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:50 pm

billflu wrote:Yeah, I think Atlas needs to explain his logic.
World war I - America was kinda sitting around, doing their own 'liberations' in their own spot in a bar when suddenly a bar fight breaks out and America has to throw someone through a window.

America decides maybe bars aren't the right place to liberate.

World War II - America was making a bank deposit when suddenly an armed robber comes in and everyone has to hit the ground. America makes a signal to Britain in which they rush the armed robbers. Britain throws one through a window, and America drops an A-Bomb on the other.

(Either way I'm sure you guys know your WWx History)

Korea - Communism strikes in Korea, and a group of radicals decide to attempt to over throw Korea for the good of communism. America steps up and goes after what we now know as North Korea. South Korea invests in MMOs and Starcraft as their main economical figure.

Vietnam - Vietnam cries out to France for independance, France says no, they fight and then flee, America comes to assist, with a big head over fending off North Korea. We get our asses handed to us. (History check on that whole France thingie, I'm sure it's just American propaganda in the history texts)

Gulf - Saddam challenges Bush Sr. to an arm wrestling fight. Bush goes home feeling like a winner, even though Saddam just kinda stood there and said no.

Gulf II - Bush Jr. was tired of reading children's books to kindergarteners, and his pops said he needed a hobby, so he decided to pick on the quiet kid in class.

What I'm trying to get is it's sort of looking like a bell-curve for the world between staying out of it, and getting involved, it's looking like it's leaning towards involved again.

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Post by Evil Ed » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:18 pm

PhoeniX wrote:(Yeah right, like QueKees has founded that phrase.. :lol:)
Evil Ed wrote:It was Peacekeeping according to the Americans.
Oh really?

'The Americans' ever said World War I and II were peacekeeping missions?

Good thing that this thread is about the peacekeeping in Korea then.


The objective for the Americans in the Vietnam war was not to conquer. It was to fight off. Maintain the peace in what's not already gone FUBAR by war.
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PhoeniX
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Post by PhoeniX » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:57 pm

Evil Ed wrote:Good thing that this thread is about the peacekeeping in Korea then.
Actually it's about the Atomic bomb test by North Korea :P

Evil Ed wrote:The objective for the Americans in the Vietnam war was not to conquer. It was to fight off. Maintain the peace in what's not already gone FUBAR by war.
Which peace exactly? :P

zappa
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Post by zappa » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:34 pm

A.Mo.K wrote:
zappa wrote:
A.Mo.K wrote: exactly! but this time i doubt america will anyhow invade there!
More bash America garbage. Go back to school and get your GED.
america invaded afghanistan, america invaded iraq, america is not goin to invade nk cause they have troups in south, whom they dont want to be attacked! got any problem with me then pm me and we ll sort it out there!
wrong. pm me for any further insight if your have any problems with me.

zappa
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Post by zappa » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:00 pm

3ntropy wrote:
zappa wrote:
A.Mo.K wrote: exactly! but this time i doubt america will anyhow invade there!
More bash America garbage. Go back to school and get your GED.
How in the hell did we manage to recruit a forum troll into our clan? I didn't think things worked that way..

Anyways with that said, yeah. This is Bush's fault, and I'll say why: say you're some small country. Some incompetant fool leading a REALLY BIG, POWERFUL country has just happened to label your and two other countries as the Axis of Evil. He starts putting sanctions on one of the other countries, asking that country to disarm and allow inspectors to look for hidden stockpiles. For the most part, that country cooperates, destroying what they have and most of the time allowing inspectors to come and do their thing. Does that get the cowboy off their back? Hell no. He doesn't believe them and raids them anyways! Does he find anything? Of course not. And that leads up to the current... Cowboy is asking you to enter negotiations. What do you do?

--Signed 3ntropy, a resident of the most Republican state in the U.S. which happened to produce our current mockery of a leader
What do you do? You put aside partisan politics and dont believe what the Axis of Evil wants you to believe. Who's the forum troll now?

AngusMcGee
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Post by AngusMcGee » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:37 pm

A.Mo.K wrote:theres no way a war can make peace! think of it, has a war ever changed a country in a positive way? no, a war just can destroy, not do anything good!
= u got him wrong :P
War IS destructive, but again, being nit picky and using generalisation on your part is bad. Heard of the French Revolution? The U.S. civil war? The American Revolution? Unless you count that the U.S. has become something of a bully in the realm of world politics...

As far as the fighting in the middle east goes...it's a new kind of war. Just like we fought differently in the civil war against the UK...just like the Viatnamese and the Koreans in the jungles...
The face and the hands of war change, the means have to as well.

As far as NK...the thread's point:
Great, they want nuclear power, fine. Nuclear weapons? I don't want anyone to have them. More than that, I don't want someone who would be tempted to use them to have them.
One pill will make you smaller, one will make you big again, but I really dig the little tart that jumps up and screams, "EAT ME!"

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