Mandatory fingerprinting of UK pub patrons? WTF?!

Philosophy and Politics, from Aristotle to Trudeau, discussions that cover the gamut from civilizations, societies, how they're run and why we're here.

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Post by 20wattbulb » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:43 pm

Many UK citizens are very keen to escape this type of oppresive State interference into our lives. Admittedly there is a major problem with alcohol fueled crime in the UK but it's a more general issue at stake here : Do you want the State knowing anything more about you than it already does? This is one of the most important issues for EVERY western individual. I think it's so important I support the legal challenge to the commercialization of ID through

If letting the government data-mine you in ever more intrusive and unnecessary ways seems scary you really haven't grasped the full horror of this path yet. The real demon is big business who so badly wants to RFID you to the back teeth it's enough to make you think Orwell was right. Your privacy will have become an utter joke not just in the capacity of crime fighting / Law and Order (because this is the means to begin not the ultimate aim) but in the capacity of your consumption. 99.99% of us don't commit serious crime on a daily basis (I'm going to ignore BitTorrent users here because stealing movies is a crime kids) but we do all make choices about spending cash every day. Want to buy a new coat?" Certainly Sir, your ID please" - Buy a coffee? "Cash Sir? I'm sorry we only take finger-verified ©Ecash" - Return train ticket to Mottingham? "All passengers must pre-clear with RFID permits for ex-zonal movements outside their normal and permitted security areas." Need I continue?

ID breeds restraint, petty-minded restrictions, Little Hitler mentalities and totally unnecessary intrusions into Citizens* lives.

Let's forget ID issues and concentrate on why people glass each other after 10 pints or even feel the need to drink to excess fullstop.


* Please note that UK Passport holders are "Subjects of the Queen" and not actually citizens at all. The European Human Rights Act does go some way to ensuring some basis Human Rights if you are either rich or famous. A REAL right-to-privacy (which is what we are basically discussing I think) can really only be asserted by the such idiots as J.K.Rowling / Heather Mills and McCartney / Sara Cox / Catherine Zeta-Jones et al who have commercial interest as the basis for legal action to ascertian their so-called privacy.

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Post by BarSteward » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:52 pm

The pubs I go in don't have doormen so I never have to show them my ID...

I got carded in San Francisco by someone who was young enough to be my son... I mean... ffs.. lol

But seriously. beelzebub said you give away information often in the course of the day. True and I try not to use my credit card and when I do I like not to have it go out of my sight. But still, it's open for abuse.

I think a difference is between pharmacy / medical is that you are regulated by an indepentant body who takes care that if you breach security your feet won't touch the ground on the way out of the door. Governments have a habit of leaving the door open or misuing information.

I would be very surprise if they introduced something like this in Holland... most inner city bars hardly have door men here anyway... :P

I like getting drunk here... lots of people to have a laugh with without the (high) risk I'll get knifed. :) raaaaaaaaar

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Post by beelzebub » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:20 pm

The US government regulates pharmacy 100%. Not just Federal Gov't either. A few states have different laws reguarding what a pharmacist can and cannot do. In NYC a pharmacist cannot write a new prescription or modify a treatment for a patient (even though he knows more than a physician about medication and treatment), while in 48 other states, they can. The whole security and privacy is regulated by the government. If we break that privacy, our government issued license is taken away. Government offices leaving open doors is a matter of human error, not governmental error. If they tighten up on stuff and make it punishable by law to lose peoples info, then shit won't get fucked up. And if it does, they get sent to jail.

One issue with carding is that its done by non government people. Any schmo can work for a bar. If there was a type of scan you could do where the worker couldnt see your name or info, only a Green light, then thats the way to do it.

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Post by Juuls » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:55 am

my word :shock:

that can't be for real.. don't think they read 1984 over here yet... Seriously as much as i am for stopping crime etc; whilst the police in this country won't let you touch a man who is obviously not well and knocked out on the street, or watch as people get beaten up whilst they wait for another 6 officers to assist in a fight between two people - well I guess till that is solved no amount of finger prints will assist them :(

guess for a drink.. i'll stand back and let the guys get the door for me :wink:

corporations already have much of the information they need on us; mobiles; cards; taxes; it's all out there and information adds up - would be great if they would put some of the funds which they use to gather this data and create little flyers telling you of the next insurance premium you qualify for and put it back into the planet rather then filling my house with the snail mail equivalent of Spam!

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Post by EasyM » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:48 pm

Yes, there is a problem with violence in pubs, but I think it is a symptom of a wider lack of respect for others that is currently shown by some in this country, and the complete and utter contempt that these same people show for police and other authorities.

In my opinion it comes from a general lack of enforcement by the police and authorities.

A good example can be found near me.

A group of youths have taken to riding off-road motorcycles through a public park, often riding right at people and making them jump out of the way. The police response to this is that they cannot chase them as the rider may hurt himself if falls off when being chased and the police may then be held responsible for his injury.

The police need to be allowed to act against these people, and give them meaningful punishments without interference.

In my opinion the only way to deal with this behaviour is to re-establish respect for authority and others, not to use the big brother approach where we are watched wherever we go and whatever we do. We already have some of the highest levels of public surveillance found in Europe.


Evil Ed
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Post by Evil Ed » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:08 pm

They set up this fingerprint system in a new bar here in Helsingborg. I think it's a very good thing, cause here we got loads of troublemakers.

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Post by dox » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:37 pm ALLLLL the reasons above as to why it's not a good idea...

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Post by Holyman » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:45 pm

dox ALLLLL the reasons above as to why it's not a good idea...
I have and it's still a good idea =/

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