Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Philosophy and Politics, from Aristotle to Trudeau, discussions that cover the gamut from civilizations, societies, how they're run and why we're here.

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g0ose
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by g0ose » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:35 am

Explain to me again how not beating another team by 100 would be teaching them that competition is a bad thing. If anything, the girls on the other team probably decided competitive sports suck after being embarrassed 0-100

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by ent » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:05 am

Because they're getting yelled at for demolishing the other team. If the other team decides they want to give up instead of trying to improve themselves, then that's their prerogative. No company is ever going to decide "hey, we're taking a little *too* much of our competitor's market share, let's ease up a bit", no politician is ever going to look at the poll projections and think "let's try to keep this from being such a landslide", so why should a sports team? Collectively raising a country's youth without competitive motivations is probably one of the greatest mistakes a society could make.

Fish #641
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by Fish #641 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:18 pm

3ntropy wrote:Collectively raising a country's youth without competitive motivations is probably one of the greatest mistakes a society could make.
A capitalistic society at that
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by WolfPack » Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:31 am

How can this happen, just because they had dyslexia doesnt mean that it was an unfair game, i mean you dont
have to read the SPA on a spalding correctly to make a shot. they had 20 girls in there highschool, its math
the less girls you have for a girl basketball team, the less available talent there is to choose from. If i was the coach that
was fired i would not of apologized either, its almost like a cop killing a man with ADHD who just went on a shooting rampage at a pre-school, and then firing the cop for what was deemed not fair to a "mentally handicapped man".
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An army of sheep led by a lion, can defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

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Fish #641
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by Fish #641 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:28 pm

I'm sure both teams thought that they were winning. :3
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[email protected]|con
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by [email protected]|con » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:35 pm

Ya but there has to be a limit on what can be done. If its obvious that the game will be out of reach for the other team, put in backups, run plays and work on stuff. Don't just keep full court pressing the other team, there isn't a point anymore. I have just finished 4 years of highschool sports (basketball included) and if you are winning by a landslide, sportsmanship dictates that you shouldn't keep pressing the matter. It disrespects the sport, and worse yet, the other team. I have been on both sides of the landslide. Getting completely destroyed is not fun by any means. Competing is awesome and does teach kids life lessons obviously. But if you throw sportsmanship out the window, then it just isn't competition.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by dox » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:21 pm

If this is the way that everyone feels then it should be written as a rule, not left as some kind of exercise for your average moron to figure out. "Losing by margin x results in action y", done, debate over. People don't have good manners let alone good sportsmanship, you don't seriously expect people to be 'gentlemen' in this day and age, do you?

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by ent » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:06 am

[email protected]|con wrote:Ya but there has to be a limit on what can be done. If its obvious that the game will be out of reach for the other team, put in backups, run plays and work on stuff. Don't just keep full court pressing the other team, there isn't a point anymore. I have just finished 4 years of highschool sports (basketball included) and if you are winning by a landslide, sportsmanship dictates that you shouldn't keep pressing the matter. It disrespects the sport, and worse yet, the other team. I have been on both sides of the landslide. Getting completely destroyed is not fun by any means. Competing is awesome and does teach kids life lessons obviously. But if you throw sportsmanship out the window, then it just isn't competition.
Getting shut out in Counter-Strike or TF2 isn't exactly fun either, but it happens anyways, and it's not considered bad sportsmanship to do so. Does it hurt? Yes. Does it drive you to improve yourself and your team for the next go-round? Yes, if you are mature and (!) sportsmanly. Completely dominating a team is just as beneficial to the winning team in terms of morale as it hurts the losing team, but I tend to favor rewarding the winning team.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by [email protected]|con » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:53 am

E-sports and highschool sports are two completely different subjects, and comparing the two is stupid. Pro gaming, even amateur gaming, is done between adults for the most part. And the general concensus on gaming is, if you can drill a team into the ground, you do it. Sportsmanship is a rule that was left out of the gaming masses. Highschool sports is different. We are talking about teenagers here, and the biggest point of sports is teaching sportsmanship. Getting owned in a game on the interwebz isn't a big deal. Getting embarrassed in front of family and friends while playing sports, giving everything you got. Different setting, different meaning. I don't see people playing TF2 or counter-strike sweating buckets, and dealing with muscle pain to keep playing. Me, being an athlete, know exactly what sportsmanship means to sports.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by Holyman » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:47 am

I don't see why subbing on your worse players because you're destroying the other team is good sportsmanship, isn't it kind of like saying "you shouldn't even be playing against these guys"?
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by ent » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:30 pm

[email protected]|con wrote:Me, being an athlete, know exactly what sportsmanship means to sports.
Okay, he's the definition of sportsmanship courtesy of dictionary.com:

sports⋅man⋅ship [spawrts-muhn-ship, spohrts-]
noun
1. the character, practice, or skill of a sportsman.
2. sportsmanlike conduct, as fairness, courtesy, being a cheerful loser, etc.

Okay, so tell me how a team compromising themselves so the other team doesn't lose quite as bad is an example of fairness, courtesy, or being a cheerful loser. I would like to know, because I've had a really hard time coming up with how that could possibly fit under the banner of sportsmanship. I do see the losing team breaking the whole "being a cheerful loser" part though.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by dox » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:43 pm

[email protected]|con wrote:E-sports and highschool sports are two completely different subjects, and comparing the two is stupid. Pro gaming, even amateur gaming, is done between adults for the most part. And the general concensus on gaming is, if you can drill a team into the ground, you do it. Sportsmanship is a rule that was left out of the gaming masses. Highschool sports is different. We are talking about teenagers here, and the biggest point of sports is teaching sportsmanship. Getting owned in a game on the interwebz isn't a big deal. Getting embarrassed in front of family and friends while playing sports, giving everything you got. Different setting, different meaning. I don't see people playing TF2 or counter-strike sweating buckets, and dealing with muscle pain to keep playing. Me, being an athlete, know exactly what sportsmanship means to sports.
I disagree with the pro gaming differences you outline, namely: The idea that pro gamers are mostly adults, that it's not a big deal to lose a match, that e-sports are not watched by friends/family, that you don't see e-sports players sweating and dealing with pain.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by Fish #641 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:05 pm

I disagree with the part that sportsmanship isn't a big deal within the online community. I'd say it's a much bigger deal than with high school sports. One guy in the TF2 community is notorious for making huge, sweeping roster changes to his team for whatever reason (they did poorly, the team lost, he had food poisoning, etc.), and generally being a jerk. His team recently just went through with a coup to get rid of him, and now he's looking for a team. Now it's even harder to find a decent team because most people in the TF2 community hate him. This same concept applies to jerk teams trying to get scrims after they ragequit or just act like children having a temper tantrum (also known as the XBox Live Syndrome).

Now what happens if there's a team in high school with a bad reputation? Well, you'll play them next week, and a few weeks after that.
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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by dox » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:06 pm

Fish, that's not sportsmanship: it's politics.

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Re: Win a game, don't apologize for doing so, get fired

Post by Fish #641 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Oh wow you're right. My train of thought started off with the idea of teams that ragequit during scrims and them getting the reputation of that, which subsequently makes us never want to scrim them again (and that stigma carrying with them), but then I thought of that example, which doesn't fit like I wanted it to. Oh well.
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