F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

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Psunfragga
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F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Psunfragga » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:42 pm

Has anyone been following the protesting going on by UK Students regarding tuition fees at university? At present Scotland goes to uni for free, while England pays £3,300. International students are expected to spend £10,000.

With the new Conservative-Tory coalition, they've announced plans to increase fees for all home students to £9,000. Thats like, 6 thousand more than I can afford! It doesn't affect students for a few years and I'll be graduated by then, but I'm absolutely disgusted that it has been deemed acceptable to squeeze money out of students in order to overcome a financial deficit! (Whey Mr Mayor, go on spend more taxpayers money on your personal expenses kthx...)

At the moment we take out loans which we begin paying back when we start work. Our government claims that this move will help international student fees decrease - who gives a shit?!!?!?! When bright students from less well off families cannot max out their full potential, when we have a SHORTAGE of essential occupations like doctors it will be too late to realise that a mistake was made! Even now many students can't afford tuition fee prices along with an escalation of living prices, but £3.3K is a figure that is managiable in future. £9k? NO WAY!

The violence too was rediculous, I guess this is what happens when the uneducated manage to join a public march - who is to say there people were actually students? Its a shame that a few broken windows is stealing light away from the point at hand. Break the cuts, not the windows people! =x


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11728003
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dox
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by dox » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:48 pm

The value placed on education varies wildly (ask someone from a communist nation, then ask someone from the UK then ask someone that goes to MIT, etc) but what isn't in dispute is that education is valuable. Though I believe it was a counter-productive total embarrassment to have the protests come out as they did, I am thrilled to see that they got off they butts and did something instead of just tweeting a revolution. That said it just takes a quick look across the channel to see how ineffective some protest can be: shutting down their country accomplished little in the recent French riots -- it's all quite interesting in that democracy doesn't seem to handle "new issues" very well: your democratically selected representatives are presumably chosen and empowered by the people, but can quite easily become the peoples adversaries once things get rolling.

Nonetheless it does strike me as outright callous and ignorant to have a hungry government consider penalizing its own youth in its hunt for money.. it just seems obvious to me that it'd be one of the last places that should be squeezed, but then again what area/populace will be happy with further cuts/hikes? Hate the war? Soldiers need to get paid. Think cigarettes could be more expensive? Most smokers keep smoking and some are students anyway. Maybe putting a further crunch on corporations? There's probably a thousand reasons not to. Etc. etc.

As to "uni for free" in Scotland -- I'm sure they pay in some other way. Some countries will gladly give you an education in exchange for military service! :)

Either way, I still think its outrageous to hike tuition so significantly: are those the actual numbers? I didn't know it was so steep! In a country where so many people opt (as opposed to "require") to not work and collect welfare instead; raising the bar for entry to education seems like a very, very dangerous thing to do. That said, most people consider university education more of an option for wealthy families rather than a right for all citizens -- perhaps that should change?

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by ent » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:37 pm

Try to attend uni in the US and you won't think what you're going through is very bad at all :(

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by BlackHawk5 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:22 pm

I live in a college town (grew up in one too). The college here is a run-of-the-mill state school in most subjects, with a specialty in agriculture (known world wide). Average tuition here costs about $14,000 a year, for a state resident. The private school that is in my hometown costs $24,000. These figures don't count room or board. I didn't realize the UK had that low of tuition costs for college.

It makes a lot of sense for a government to subsidize (higher) education. But don't think that it's free. IMO government faculties should be run like business, with a balanced budget.... don't spend more than you have/take in. Believe it or not the cost for education is going up, & your going to have to pay it back somehow. Either by paying back loans (so you are more responsible for the education you specifically got) or having higher taxes as a working adult (which spreads out the cost of education to everyone, no matter who got it.) Which would you prefer?

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Psunfragga » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:26 pm

BlackHawk5 - We do pay back our education once we've graduated through loans the government has given us. Our fees are £3,300 for just a standard degree course per year, plus anything between £4 - 8 thousand for board etc, plus books/equipment etc. Most universities here specialise in something as our little island is so small hence why we don't do things by state etc.


Dox - Scotland is deffo free if you're there from birth! Just pay your living costs (which everyone does anyway.)



The biggest anger comes from pre-election, when those voted into power said they would freeze/scrap the costs of tuition fees for university studets; A big reason why they received the popular vote from many families. People are also upset that those in power didn't have to pay for their education and are now charging for it from students of today and future. My biggest concerns is how can my parents support me through university, and my brother for when he goes to it. This is something shared by other students alike. I personally am in a good position where I'm actually sustaining myself at uni through a part time job, but there are millions others who have jobs that do not pay as well as I do.

University education in the uk over the past decade has put pressures and PR campaigns to change viewpoints that university is not for the wealthy family, and that it should be a right all citizens should be exploring. With some of the top universities in their field residing in the UK, it cannot be wise to decreasing the potential students who can be walking through the doors to maintain prestige because some people went back on the pre election words and decided to trebble fees for new students in the next 5 yrs! Ironically if they do go ahead with this, I really don't see them winning favour for the next elections coming within 5 years anyway. Why put a step backwards on work of education and undo the billions invested with time and money putting higher education as a right rather than choice? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Children have grown up with the hopes of university, now they're coming of age the parents have to say "Sorry hunny, we can't support you at university."

It's a conversation I'd never like to have with my kids (another reason why I'm totally against this!) I'm on a technical course and a top 15 university (or even top 10!) and I can just barely see where my £3,300 is going towards tuition fees. I would never see where my £9,000 is going unless I got a free top of the range mac with it and some other sexy extras. I know that in other countries like the US you have your fees extortionately high. Your country is HUUUUUGEE whereas we're tiny! The only good thing we have going good for us atm is our education system and now even that is being unbalanced by some fat cats who favour the high class (hence the slurs of Tory scum as opposed to things about the conservative.)

I actually feel some sympathy towards Clegg who is the one who introduced this bombshell on the nation while Cameron (our actual PM) is raving it up in a different country. Scapegoat much? How can our economy be in such a financial crisis that we are having to attack the stablish education system before looking into pulling the plug on failing projects such as the horrendous modernisation of IT in the NHS or even ID Cards after 9/11 and 7/7.




I actually hate politics believe it or not :x
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by dox » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:44 pm

All I meant re: Scotland was that their subsidized education means that something else got shorted -- without laying in to a bunch of "Scotland is crap" jokes I reckon you know what I'm getting at -- surely the Scots enjoy higher education at the cost of something else (aka: there is no such thing as "free").

There's been years and years and years and years of parents in many, many countries saying "Sorry hunny, we can't support you at university." -- far longer than you or I have been alive. This is not new.

Are you really surprised that elected officials didn't deliver? Add on to that all types of educational failings like "grade inflation", schools failing to meet GCSE targets not to mention the huge gap between learning attitudes in various linguistic zones (compare the read-a-book-once of US/US/AUS/CAN students to that of their read-a-book-thrice Indian counterparts) and you'll see that you're far from getting the best.

Remember the Boston Tea Party and the whole "No taxation without representation" thing? Are they even trying to give you something extra or justify the expense of something they've given you already? It just seems nuts to triple the cost for no reason.. What's the other side of the story?

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Psunfragga » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Other side is to get Britain out of a Funding/Spending Deficit/Financial Crisis. You rightly hit the nail on the head when you said this should be the last thing theyre squeezing from the average Joe. The biggest surprise is not the lack of delivery, but a complete U turn on something that was a pinacle point for securing power.

The mentality towards Higher Edu in the UK is completely different these days than other countries after the amount of years and PR spent telling kids from a young age if they dont go to uni, theyre going to fail at life. (hence my massive whine!) 'Grade inflation' stories are old people saying GCSE's arent as hard as when they took them back in the day, with schools failing to meet targets being their own special cases. There are always going to be areas of highs and lows, but on the whole the literacy rate of the UK is high; Grammar and private schools make children learn two languages! It's not the best, but why make worse out of a bad situation?
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Smithy » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:56 pm

dox wrote:Remember the Boston Tea Party and the whole "No taxation without representation" thing? Are they even trying to give you something extra or justify the expense of something they've given you already? It just seems nuts to triple the cost for no reason.. What's the other side of the story?
Our (Americans) Ancestors would roll over in their grave if they seen the amount of Bullshit tax's on crap we have now a days!
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by ent » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:45 pm

The tea party is great. It's like a French Revolution in reverse where the workers come pouring down the street screaming "More power to the aristocracy!!"

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Fish #641 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:20 am

I'm looking at schools that are ~$40000 for tuition this upcoming year. xD Luckily there are scholarships, but still, that's $240,000 for education (since my parents will graciously cover room and board) before my hard work in high school pays off.
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by skullhead » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:17 am

Its just the man keeping you under his thumb. If your from, lets say a lower caste, they don't want you if the good schools no matter how smart you are. They would prefer you go to trade school or community college so one day you can work in the service industry. If you do get the loans to go to a good school, your so far in debt that they get a piece of your salary for most of your life. Go figure.

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Hans » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:25 am

You absolutely must own your own business and work like a dog to make it profitable. There is no other way for most of us.
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by ent » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:52 pm

Looks like students are protesting. Good for you, Americans that age are too apathetic / complacent to do anything like that :)

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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by Fish #641 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:18 pm

ent wrote:Looks like students are protesting. Good for you, Americans that age are too apathetic / complacent to do anything like that :)
...You're trolling.
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Re: F*CK THE CUTS, YOU TORY SL*TS!!

Post by ent » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:18 pm

Fish #641 wrote:...You're trolling.
No, I'm really not.

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