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Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:31 am
by Vengeance
So - some crazy stuff about to start here? Or a quick in and out operation?

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:00 pm
by Smithy
(i made a post before i got here Again failed here is the copy and paste.)

What do you guys think about the current situation there?

The UN finally passed a NO Fly Zone yesterday. And then today Kadafi Issued a Cease Fire for now. Personally i was a bit pissed off that We (USA) did not act faster once he started bombing his own people. I thought it was so hypocritical of us that we tell these people to reach out and take democracy and human rights and when they finally had enough and started to do just that we back off and let them get out machined by aircraft. I dont want to see any UN ground troops in lybia but damn we sure could have put a few squadrons of Fighters to stop the air raids a week ago. What do you all think?

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:41 pm
by dox
I think that I didn't elect the USA to be my global police task force so I'm glad that it went through the UN instead of the US working unilaterally. Either way, it's a full-blown uprising of the people, I'm not sure it's anyone's place to pick sides except the citizens of that country. I wish them luck but I'm always suspicious/skeptical of this kind of external intervention, previous track records with these kinds of involvements seem to bring results that range from, historically-speaking, poor to terrible, regardless of intentions.

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:00 pm
by Smithy
yeah but speaking as an American how bull shit is it of us telling these people to take what is theirs but when they need our help (And in my opinion the worlds help) no one was there to lend a hand?

Do i think we need to roll in with tanks and troops and round pro kadif supporters up? No... Can we level the playing fields a bit and not allow one side to Bomb the living shit out of "rebels" and innocent Libyans?

As a Canadian dont you want the rest of the world to enjoy the basic freedoms you have in your life?

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:41 pm
by dox
My viewpoint is somewhat predicated upon the notion that just because you tell me one thing one way or another it's my own choice whether or not to act on that kind of advice and I am solely responsible for the repercussions. If the relationship were different (say, if the USA was Libya's lawyer) then I could see there being some additional responsibility. But when it comes down to it: you guys will continue to say whatever you want no matter what -- preaching the nobility of democracy amidst all the corruption and laughable voter turnout is a joke anyway -- if someone decided to take up that system as their own it's their own choice.

As a Canadian I wouldn't impose on others.

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:24 pm
by Smithy
Hmm... I guess that is kind of shocking to me that you would not want to help any one who is reaching out and trying to establish better lives for themselves.

I some what see your view point more as a passive.. for instance i dont think it would be right for us to incite these rebellions.. or Try and make a country go democratic. But if the people have risen up and have spoken what they want and there basic freedoms are being taken away then i think its the job of the entire civilized world to set forward and lend a hand.

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:55 pm
by Smithy
MSNBC New Artical

Well it seems that imho UN has made the right call.. apparently according to the article that even after a "cease fire" pro Gadhafi forces are still fighting..

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:59 pm
by redfireant3
Smithy wrote:MSNBC New Artical
Well it seems that imho UN has made the right call.. apparently according to the article that even after a "cease fire" pro Gadhafi forces are still fighting..
Drones FTW!
Obama said the United States would not deploy ground troops in Libya or use force beyond protecting people.

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:34 pm
by Bradders
It's a difficult situation, admittedly the UN should have acted faster on this issue. Just because we are now going to impose a no-fly zone doesn't mean the "rebels"/people will succeed. Don't get more wrong I hope for the best for the people and that they at least get their basic human rights but if the world is not careful this could turn into another Kosovo/Bosnia. Chatting to friends who served with NATO during those conflicts, it was terrible on both sides with little the Worldwide community could do.

Re: Libya

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:26 pm
by WolfPack
The numerous warnings from the arab league not to interfere slowed them down a bit, funny how when we do go in their to stop the killing of innocent people we get harassed by roadside bombs, but when we don't act "fast enough" we should feel ashamed of ourselves. I mean, if any other country wants to step up and essentially maintain the global peace keeping duties that we seem to be obliged to commit too, go right ahead, but don't criticize a country for not acting at all, or try to say their had other interests when we do. Everyone loves to ogle at conspiracy theories, but nobody likes to take a long hollowed stare at the truth, even when it rolls through their front door in a t-72.

Re: Libya

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:05 pm
by dox
Smithy wrote:But if the people have risen up and have spoken what they want and there basic freedoms are being taken away then i think its the job of the entire civilized world to set forward and lend a hand.
But how do you know when enough people have stepped forth asking for help? Do the Libyan rebels outnumber Gadafi's numbers? ..how do you accurately determine which way things are meant to go when voting is not an option? Is there a clear majority? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping people, but I think there's some messes that are out of reasonable scope: historically speaking, most people changed their ruling regimes on their own (I know there's exceptions), it's a part of "growing up"; sure your mom and dad are totally instrumental toward you taking your first steps and they'll support you any way they can -- but you're not actually consider as 'walking' until you step on your own.

Re: Libya

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:05 pm
by Power$hot
I don't think the USA should get involved, we are sure to bomb the Chinese embassy. :oops:
Who says the rebels are for human rights? Just going to replace one tyrant with another, imo.
Let them kill each other and let Sarkozy sort it out. :|

Re: Libya

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:23 pm
by Vengeance
Looks like the US and France have launched some attacks...

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... tml?hpt=T1

Re: Libya

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:55 pm
by Crystal
Over 112 missles launched so far and already Gaddafi is filling his palaces with human shields.

They couldn't wait to get in there - Sarkozy and Cameron had a big conference on what action to take and before they walked out to announce their decision, Sky News had already reported planes in the air lol.

Love how the French have taken the lead to avert the spotlight off the war-mongering US & UK. Nicely planned!

Re: Libya

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:48 pm
by NoOutsTwice
I'm pleased to see the EU taking the lead in this, at least on paper. I am also pleased to see the 'International Community' trying to make itself relevant again somehow. While we're at it, maybe we should hang some Somali pirates? :pirate: